A couple months ago, it seemed that all the "I want something for nothing" people were coming out of the woodwork. I received a note on Messenger from a guy who wrote exactly one sentence:
I'M WANTING EDITS!Nothing else. All caps. I knew already I didn't want to deal with someone like this, but I responded politely and asked what he was referring to: a book, an article, something else . . . He replied, "I WROTE A BOOK!"
So I did what I always do in these situations. I gave him my website address, told him to please read the page that listed the services I offer and the pricing involved, and then fill out the contact form so I could learn as much as I could about his project. And . . .
. . . crickets. Which I knew would happen, so I was not surprised but instead was relieved. I have learned over the years to put the ball back in the other person's court to save myself time and aggravation. I have wasted too many hours doing free sample edits on manuscripts that are not even worthy of being classified as first drafts, and telling a writer what will be needed to get their work up to snuff—only to have them say something like, "I don't have much money to spend." Or worse, "I don't have any money. I thought you'd just do it for free."
The following example happened to an editor friend of mine:
This type of stuff happens to her all the time. The same person who sent her this also posted it on an editing "help wanted" group, saying, "Who wants to edit my short story for $10? Think of it as your good deed for the day."
In case you don't know, this is a poor way to approach a group of strangers . . . who happen to be professional editors . . . who earn their living by editing for money so they can feed their families. A good many of those in the group edit for some big-name authors but don't brag about it. When the person was told how passive-agressively insulting her request was, she got belligerent. Belligerent—while asking strangers to work for her for free. A real prize, this one.
She then went back to my friend and asked what she'd charge for it, and was told there was a $75 minimum for any copyediting work. She ridiculed the editor, and I can't remember exactly what the phrasing was, but she basically told my friend she'd gotten too big for her britches and that she (the writer) could easily find a cheaper deal. My friend pointed out that she was being asked to do detailed, skilled work for a dollar amount that would barely buy her a cheap T-shirt at Wal-Mart. The writer came back to her again, a short while later, and bragged to her that she'd gotten someone on Fiverr to do it for something like $20.
As my friend told me this, I reminded her that she was losing nothing by refusing to work with people like this. We also wondered what a $20 edit would end up looking like. I think I have a pretty good idea.
Now, don't get me wrong: I have done my share of free or cheap work when I have deemed it appropriate. Many editors (and cover designers, and formatters, and proofreaders, etc.) do freebies on occasion. Why? Because we're just nice people, I guess. We can't give everything away, of course, because we can't feed our families on good deeds. But it's nice to offer when someone least expects it, simply because we believe in that person's work and want to help them succeed.
I've been on the giving end, and I've been on the receiving end, and I can tell you they both feel great. But it's never, ever come about as the result of bullying strangers.
Fiverr is a good place to find cheap, crappy work.
ReplyDeleteYour friend definitely didn't want to deal with someone like that. I think sticking to your guns on your price is a good way to week out the undesirables.
There is a certain group of people who will race to the bottom when it comes to pricing. Unfortunately, they are also the same group of people who don't know bad editing when they see it. They get what they pay for. I know that sticking to my guns has certainly helped me to gain a better bunch of writers who take their work seriously and value both their own work and mine.
DeleteAn excellent blog, @Lynda. Unfortunately, your experiences are part of a larger problem, one that might cause the industry to “crash and burn.”
ReplyDeleteSince late Fall 2017 I am experiencing something similar: After I offered two of my little blue books for authors for free (30 p. and 43 p.) about two dozen authors approached me with, "THX, I am accepting your book for review, when can I send you mine? (ave. length 350 p.)”
HUH?!?
The “finer details” of this type of offer demonstrates these authors’ level of experience and state of mind.
What kind of people believe that I give them my book for free so they can learn what they don’t know – for free – and I will also “reward” them for learning, by reviewing their book?
The answer is:
The same type of authors who believe you’ll edit their book for 10 bucks.
Indeed, they have reason to believe that. Just look around. Book marketers keep advertising “We’ll help you to become a bestselling author – for free!” Hence, inexperienced writers believe that’s how they’ll launch their career.
*
Additionally, “inexperienced” authors who want to show off tell other newbies what a “fabulous” job their “affordable” editor did for them. And, they believe it. Many of them probably can’t even judge the quality of an editing job because they never read any classics. If they see one or two edit marks on each page they believe their book has been professionally edited.
I am guessing there are some guys on Fiverr who use a $50 editing program “to edit” books and that’s how they can afford doing what they are doing.
*
The larger problem of both of these situations is that Internet book marketers keep encouraging “everyone” to write “their book,” though catering to “everyone” always means stretching toward the bottom.
These Internet book marketers and the editors who “edit” books from authors who can’t judge the quality of an editing job are the ones who are making the money, the professionals AND the novices lose.
*
This is getting out of hand. The other day, at my gym where I can watch five TV channels at the same time, I even saw a book marketing service running an ad on the LOCAL FOX channel. Now, think about the demographics this channel caters to. Are these people who read Hemingway, Twain, Dickens, Kerouac, Plath... ? Probably not. So, that’s the people who’ll be happy with a $20 editing job.
Meanwhile, the industry gets overrun with unprofessional authors, editors, and other self declared professionals.
Which leads to...
Many of the inexperienced authors who don’t “achieve success” engage in review trading... AND, consequently => Amazon tightens their grip/algorithm to combat the situation on their end.
Thank you, Gisela! Your comments address so many of my concerns. Those who are new to the scene are rarely able to tell a bad editing job from a good one, or a good one from a great one.
DeleteAn author on an online board recently mentioned how she was appalled to find out that the "editor" she'd hired for her first book admitted to simply running her manuscript through Grammarly. She'd become suspicious because she noticed errors that had been introduced by the editor. Thankfully, she was astute enough to realize it and call the person out. But until I heard her story, it had never occurred to me that someone would even have the nerve to do that and call themselves a professional. And clearly, that person had no knowledge of correct or incorrect when it came to the language, or he would have also found the errors he'd introduced.
I just hate it when inexperienced writers try to bully or belittle the professionals while being completely unaware of their own ignorance. It makes indie authors as a whole look bad because of those who only look at the dollar sign and don't know enough to realize money should not be the decision maker.
LOL, @Lynda, Imagine what I thought when I found out that (apparently) newbie authors think doing what I described will get them a book review from a top reviewer. Unbelievable. I have been writing and blogging about this topic since 2015.
DeleteSelf-publishing is viewed as a gold rush by those masses without a clue as to the work involved in crafting a quality narrative, who view writing as an easy way to avoid the cubicle maze. And as we all know, the only people who consistently make money from a gold rush are the folks selling shovels to the prospectors. When these people take their $20 edits to market on Amazon or wherever, and fall flat on their faces, they'll throw up a few posts about how they were screwed by their editors, and move on to the next trendy issue while forever including "Perfessional Awther" on their resumes.
DeleteThat said, cost is a legitimate issue for many people. There are a number of services that I could buy, but it would mean that I don't eat, so I don't buy them. I also don't go out of my way to demonstrate a professional level of asshattery to the world. Some people (more and more, sadly) seem to have been raised in houses of prostitution, and are proud to demonstrate the fact to everyone they meet.
Great observations, Jack! I attended an Editing Memoir webinar a few months back, and the instructor said at least half the times someone says, "You really ought to write a book," it's to get the other person to stop talking about whatever great or horrible thing they've been blathering endlessly about at a party.
DeleteI have seen so many authors blame everyone but themselves. I'm so proud to know some pretty stellar writers who just buckle down and work for it.
@Jack. Thank you for the wording "Perfessional Awther." I giggled and laughed. Do you write genre humor?
Delete@Gisela: Not on purpose. There are other opinions, though...
DeleteI can use an extra ten bucks for wasting my time.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Janie
Ha! Janie, I actually thought of you when the woman posted on the help wanted board with her snarky "consider it your good deed for the day." Her post, short as it was, had bad grammar, a typo, and no punctuation. One of the editors replied, "I will edit your post for $10."
DeleteLove it!
DeleteSo agree with Jack ...
DeleteInterestingly enough, writers get similar requests. "Can you write a guest post, ghost write, etc. forfor free, it will be great exposure. Ha. Lynda tell me who that was and I'll send my associates to have a...little talk with him. Or her.
ReplyDeleteI hate trying to write on my phone.
DeleteHa! I'm glad you still have the associates at the ready!
DeleteAnd yes, I still don't understand how people think they're doing a writer a favor by offering exposure. It's one thing to do a freebie for a non-profit, or a friend, or a cause you feel strongly about, but there are people who make a habit of getting something for nothing and then bragging about it.
I tell them if I wanted exposure I would run naked down the interstate. Give me dollars unless, like you said, are a cause I care about. I donate 10% of sales at events to St. Jude's and Arkansas Children's Hospital because those are causes I care about.
DeleteI wonder what they expect people to pay for their book once it's published?
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, they seem to have no trouble expecting to make big bucks.
DeleteThis post ended up being long enough that I saved my favorite example for the next Circular File post . . . someone who wanted me to work for free but who was not willing to offer her book for free.
Hi Lynda - it's fascinating how people behave and react and do ... yet is that the way they behave in real life with their friends and colleagues. I love reading these things - and you've worked your replies out to a fine art ... cheers Hilary
ReplyDeleteHi there, Hilary! I'm so sorry for the long delay in replying. I've been having a lot of trouble with Blogger comments lately. I'm not getting notified when I receive comments, and then when I try to reply to the comments, I get a blank screen with no comment box, four out of five times. It's making me crazy.
DeleteI've often wondered as you do . . . is this the way these people treat someone they are talking to, face to face? I'm still learning how to deal with them tactfully but firmly.
I have a note-card on my bulletin board with the current rate I will charge you for an hour of my time. Now, take into account that it will be the only thing I accomplish that day, that it will take ALL my energy, that I will need to nap before and after, and all the caveats you can think up about a disabled writer with a damaged brain taking on someone else's project...
ReplyDeleteThe ladies who staged my house for sale are starting a website and wanted a catchy title, and asked me, a professional writer, for something they could use.
I told them I don't do commercial, as I write fiction, and then told them my per-hour charge of $1,200.00, and there has been no further discussion of a job for me. I must have scared them off.
I'm perfectly serious, but no one has taken me up on it yet.
That's terrific, Alicia. We all know what our time is worth, and considering all you have to factor in, I don't think your going rate is all that unreasonable. And it's up to others whether they'll pay it or not. I really do hope someone takes you up on it someday!
DeleteMy goodness! LOL
ReplyDeleteI always like to ask if they'd be willing to go to their job for a couple weeks and work for free as a good deed. Of course they'll say no because it's their living. So . . . like editors or any other consultant/freelancer is doing work just for kicks and giggles? Nothing like turning the table around for them to scream, "It's not fair!"
It's those same people who say things like, "Oh, you get to read for a living! That would be my dream job!" Well . . . yes, if I were reading finished books and then just sitting back and sighing in my easy chair over a few hours well spent. But working on an unedited book (no matter how well-written) is still paying attention to every word, knowing rules and styles, fixing what needs fixed, and being accountable (and SUPER guilty) if even one thing gets missed, regardless if 1500 errors have been caught. Eighty hours of intense looking is not quite the same as a recliner, Jane Austen, and coffee.
Delete